Did MGS lose a lot of it's magic for you after the first? This may be why.

For a lot of people (me included), the MGS series just never managed to capture the magic of MGS1 going into it's sequels.For awhile I theorized that this might have quite a bit to do with quality of the English translation, or lack thereof, in the games post-MGS1. The characters, the dialogue ....... something just seemed off in MGS2, and to some extent, in MGS3 as well. I just could not find myself getting into the characters or being terribly interested in what any of them had to say. They just did'nt sound very natural I suppose. At least not on the same level as they did in the first MGS.Here is an interview I think every MGS fan needs to hear. It's slightly depressing to think that the MGS sequels could've been so much more enjoyable than they were if not for clashing egos and opportunistic writers. I've always felt that Kojima was not quite the ''genius'' that so many make him out to be, and despite how many artistic pictures he takes with glasses on, finger on chin, staring into the camera like he's in deep thought, It's always been quite apparent to me that the true stars of the show were those writing the script for the English translation. Making the characters seem more real than just sticking to a direct translation of what is ultimately a ridiculous script when left untouched.It pretty much confirmed my beliefs when Jeremy Blaustein (the subject of this particular podcast) said ''I tried to write that script as best I could, but they still snuck some things past me. Do you think love can bloom on the battlefield? Do you really believe I wanted that in the game?''Given that the line ''Do you think love can bloom on the battlefield?'' is the most out of place line in all of MGS1, and to this day elicits snickers from me and my friends when we reminisce about it, I tend to believe the original would've been that much better if Blaustein had been given more creative freedom. Obviously, he lost all control after MGS1, and the disappointing sequels are the by product of this.I'm sure there will be tons of MGS fans in here calling this guy a whiner, proclaiming Kojima a genius, and saying things like '' the MGS sequels were every bit as good as the first ........ if not better!'', but please try and be open-minded when you listen to this interview.To think that if this guy could've kept editing the script, we very likely would've beenspared such trash as ''Liquid is an arm now!'', and the crotch-grabbing President.http://www.metalgearsolid.org/show_news.php?id=1218Did MGS lose a lot of it's magic for you after the first? This may be why.
Meh, I think the quirky nature of the story line is what makes MGS....MGS.Did MGS lose a lot of it's magic for you after the first? This may be why.
I could never get into the MGS games, mainly because the characters were a bit too cheesy for me, not to mention I didn't think the gameplay was very entertaining. I don't know if that adds anything to this thread tho...
[QUOTE=''DarKre'']Meh, I think the quirky nature of the story line is what makes MGS....MGS.[/QUOTE]True, however there is good quirky (Vulcan Raven acknowledging he is a real contender in the annual Alaskan pie-eating contest), and there's over-done quirky (Fat demolitions expert on rollerskates teams up with bisexual vampire to take down feminine, nude, cartwheeling Raiden).
Personally, I disliked MGS1 It had... how should I say? Too many corny moments (like Otacon asking about love in battlefield to Snake), and it wasn't really the evolution I expected from Metal Gear series (I played it liked it, but didn't love it back then) in terms of story. I thought it will take more realistic presentation, but instead MGS went way far into abstract story telling. My love for MGS series started with MGS2 and that's when I started to appreciate it. When I played MGS3 I was beyond hooked.
Yup
The MGS story is to weird , the first was good , but the rest of MGS games is to complex and weird , because everyone is called .....Snake!!!!!
The first one was great, but the second one kind of did it for me with the whole snake being dead, and you have to play as this he she Raiden that totally looks like a girl and complains just as much. The third one was good, and i hop #4 will set a whole new level for future espionage gaming.
I thought the third one was by far the best of the series mainly because of the depth of the gameplay and feeling like a total badass kicking ass in the jungle. Plus, The End was the best boss fight in the series.
Not at all! I always thought Kojima's stories were always the same. The only thing that people criticized was Raiden, but Metal Gear Solid 3 got the game back on track. It was one of my favorite last-gen games, maybe even one of my favorite games of all time. And MGS 3: Subsistence only took it to another level, a very high level.Even though MGS 2 was criticized, the gameplay was still Metal Gear-''Solid,'' if you know what I mean.So no, MGS was always about the gameplay for me, and every version delivered, especially the third one.
The magic kinda sputtered after the 2nd game, for me. I loved 1 and 2, but since 3 didn't really continue Snake's story I didn't care about it much. In terms of writing, they've always been rather ridiculous but that's one of the best things about MG. I'm certain that MGS4 will blow 3 away in terms of just entertainment value, and that's enough to say that I don't think the MGS magic is gone yet.
You bring up a pretty interesting point, and a good read, but I can't frankly say that this is the main culprit in my descending interest in the franchise. The first MGS grabbed me by the balls because it was an old franchise reborn in a way we had never seen prior, and offered gameplay that seemed completely new and refreshing. By the time the second one came out, its own popularity had diluted the pool and the game just didn't grab my attention as much, despite still being of high production values. Storyline and scripting played a part of it, but for me, it probably wasn't the straw that broke the camel's back.
I liked the first one the best cuz it wasn't so over the top. Some of it was actuallt believable.
[QUOTE=''E3BigC'']I could never get into the MGS games, mainly because the characters were a bit too cheesy for me, not to mention I didn't think the gameplay was very entertaining. I don't know if that adds anything to this thread tho...[/QUOTE]Precisely my opinion.You have a lot of corny moments such as Snake being emotional and quotes like the love blooming. You have all this references to historic events, then you have Psycho Mantis and his leather stripper costume, floating in the air, or the big guy with his voodoo and birds. The gameplay eh, I'm not a fan of crawling in vents. The story, clashes with fantasy and realism.I haven't tried 2 or 3 though.
Personally, I love the Metal Gear games. Cornyness and all, it just wouldn't be Metal Gear without corny moments. Like I love the whole roll in the barrel idea for MGS4. I do find it interesting that not one person has mentioned the themes that lied prevailent throughout each game. Gene, Meme, and.... Hmm, I can't remember what the third one was about.
MGS 2 definitely didn't have the feel of the first, Raiden was a big reason for this but not the only one. I do feel they got back to good standards though with Snake Eater, and I think Patriots will be the ultimate MGS game for some time.
[QUOTE=''ASK_Story''] Not at all! I always thought Kojima's stories were always the same. The only thing that people criticized was Raiden, but Metal Gear Solid 3 got the game back on track. It was one of my favorite last-gen games, maybe even one of my favorite games of all time. And MGS 3: Subsistence only took it to another level, a very high level.Even though MGS 2 was criticized, the gameplay was still Metal Gear-''Solid,'' if you know what I mean.So no, MGS was always about the gameplay for me, and every version delivered, especially the third one.[/QUOTE]I wouldn't go that far. The only thing people criticized was Raiden? There were far more relevant complaints made than just Raiden. Raiden is one of the least substantial and viable complaints of the later MGS games in my opinion.Yes I absolutely agree that the gameplay has been solid throughout the entire series and has never skipped a beat as far as I'm concerned, but don't sell MGS short. There is far more to the allure of MGS than just how fun it is to play (in the times you actually get a chance to control it of course). There is a lot of emotion in it's cinematics, deep connection the player feels for it's characters, and an atmosphere that sucks you in and makes you believe that these characters and the crisis at hand are real and important to you as well as the game world's inhabitants.MGS without dialogue, cinematics, and script......... well it's certainly not MGS.(EDIT) Did my spaces disappear due to some technical issue, or is it just me?
[QUOTE=''swordofzaren'']Personally, I love the Metal Gear games. Cornyness and all, it just wouldn't be Metal Gear without corny moments. Like I love the whole roll in the barrel idea for MGS4. I do find it interesting that not one person has mentioned the themes that lied prevailent throughout each game. Gene, Meme, and.... Hmm, I can't remember what the third one was about. [/QUOTE]I agree and I agree with Johnathan guy who said anyone who doesn't like the cornyness in metal gear games should leave it and play splinter cell. Mgs1 enemies were fox hound and they had longer history than dead cell and the boring bunch in mgs3 so it's nartural that you feel related or like the baddies in mgs1 more than mgs2 or 3. Besides the history, the gameplay was so little in mgs2 and the story was too long while the story was little*the dialougs were the worst in mgs3 especially the ones that took place between snake and the boss* and the cut-scenes weren't as climatic as in mgs1 or 2. As for the parts that were lost with translation, it's 100% natural when you try to translate any piece of story from a language to another that it loses it's magic, try watching bleach for instance in both english and japanese and tell me what ichigo you liked more. In the dubbed version he sounded slow and boring while in japanese he goes screaming and calls everybody son of a *****!
ALL of the MGS games have cheesy dialogue, and I love them for it. The original was more awesome than the rest only because it was the first game of its kind--it felt like an interactive Hollywood blockbuster. It has nothing to do with script.
[QUOTE=''gamingqueen''] [QUOTE=''swordofzaren'']Personally, I love the Metal Gear games. Cornyness and all, it just wouldn't be Metal Gear without corny moments. Like I love the whole roll in the barrel idea for MGS4. I do find it interesting that not one person has mentioned the themes that lied prevailent throughout each game. Gene, Meme, and.... Hmm, I can't remember what the third one was about. [/QUOTE]I agree and I agree with Johnathan guy who said anyone who doesn't like the cornyness in metal gear games should leave it and play splinter cell. Mgs1 enemies were fox hound and they had longer history than dead cell and the boring bunch in mgs3 so it's nartural that you feel related or like the baddies in mgs1 more than mgs2 or 3. Besides the history, the gameplay was so little in mgs2 and the story was too long while the story was little*the dialougs were the worst in mgs3 especially the ones that took place between snake and the boss* and the cut-scenes weren't as climatic as in mgs1 or 2. As for the parts that were lost with translation, it's 100% natural when you try to translate any piece of story from a language to another that it loses it's magic, try watching bleach for instance in both english and japanese and tell me what ichigo you liked more. In the dubbed version he sounded slow and boring while in japanese he goes screaming and calls everybody son of a *****! [/QUOTE]The point is not that it's losing magic from the translation. It's that it is gaining magic through the superior writing skills of these American translators.In the interview you will find they talk a bit about this. Basically, a lot of Japanese writers are influenced by American cinema (like Kojima), and are basically bouncing that right back at us. To a Japanese audience, a lot of this regurgitation is fine as it is new to them, however, to an American audience, the same line would seem absolutely ridiculous and cause nothing more than a chuckle (ie Do you think love can bloom on the battlefield?).It is the duty of the American script writer/translator, to make sure the dialogue comes out naturally and entertaining to a Western audience.Any fan of Japanese Anime can tell you just how painful a lot of direct translations can be to read or listen to. These are the results of an English script writer/ translator that just does'nt give a damn, and would rather leave the original dialogue unedited and directly translated. More often than not, as in the case of that one Disney translated anime who's name escapes me at the moment, the dialogue needs to be rewritten, humor needs to be added, and many changes have to be made. Japanese writing just would'nt appeal to most Western audiences in an untouched form.I believe the person theyappointed to replace Blaustein called MGS2's script the worst script she had ever read. Obviously she didn't take the liberty of changing some things the way Blaustein did. A move that ultimately got him fired.