See, the thing about ''art'' is that the word has become so overused that it has lost most of its meaning. Going by your definition, when I make toast in the morning it is art. Maybe even clipping my toe nails could be considered art. While I'm at it, why don't I say fluffing my pillow just the way I like it is art.Also, video games are worked on by hundreds of people now. Many games have more in common with a cheap Happy Meal toy than the Mona Lisa.Video games and art: are they both the same??...
I agree, Happy Meal toys are better than the Mona Lisa :)
Thats your opinion. Art isnt something for someone to feel about so that object is art just coz somebody feels its art. You have to look back at ''art's'' history and defination. That being said, if you done your own research, Im not gonna do it for you, video game is not art and that is a FACT. That being said, we have lots of intangbles or wateva supporting what I just said. Kojima said video game is not art. Do not defy Kojima. Do not defy art in general. Worst still, dont taint the word art by categorizing it as being able to be a video game. You just not educated in art and logic. Nobody in the industry have ever said video game is art, in general. In contrast, there's a ''couple'' of people that said video game is not art. So case closed. By the way, a game can be artistic but never be art,.......yet.....who knows? One last thing, you people dont know the word innovation means. Same goes to hardcore and art, words that people just throw around with video games being the subject of discussions. Im much more clever than alot of you guys, not to boast or anything.
[QUOTE=''AtomicTangerine''] See, the thing about ''art'' is that the word has become so overused that it has lost most of its meaning. Going by your definition, when I make toast in the morning it is art. Maybe even clipping my toe nails could be considered art. While I'm at it, why don't I say fluffing my pillow just the way I like it is art.Also, video games are worked on by hundreds of people now. Many games have more in common with a cheap Happy Meal toy than the Mona Lisa.[/QUOTE] your toast is not a depiction of anything, nor are you trying to express anything. even if it holds some of the principles and/or elemts of art, if theres no intent by the creator to make it expressive or depictive then its not art. are you saying that making toast without the care of making art is like making a painting or a sulpture or a movie or a video game. people who creat art do it with the pupose and intent to create an expression or depiction, while you are simply just trying fill your stomach. you are obviously just a gamer and not artist or else you would have already known this. oh well...
[QUOTE=''Kev_Boy'']I agree, Happy Meal toys are better than the Mona Lisa :)[/QUOTE] actually i think the technical drawing that show those toy's design are more like art than those taoys, as they are a depiction of what a particular toy should look and feel like. the toy itself is made in a factory in some foreign country by those who only care about making a product and not creating their or art or creative for m of expression. it takes more than the artistic elements for it to be art. the creator has to have the the desire to make it say something or to redefine something, and not just to entertain. games accomplish this, just as copletely as films and other style of art do, unlike your fast food restaurant toys...
[QUOTE=''Captain_Swosh69'']Thats your opinion. Art isnt something for someone to feel about so that object is art just coz somebody feels its art. You have to look back at ''art's'' history and defination. That being said, if you done your own research, Im not gonna do it for you, video game is not art and that is a FACT. That being said, we have lots of intangbles or wateva supporting what I just said. Kojima said video game is not art. Do not defy Kojima. Do not defy art in general. Worst still, dont taint the word art by categorizing it as being able to be a video game. You just not educated in art and logic. Nobody in the industry have ever said video game is art, in general. In contrast, there's a ''couple'' of people that said video game is not art. So case closed. By the way, a game can be artistic but never be art,.......yet.....who knows? One last thing, you people dont know the word innovation means. Same goes to hardcore and art, words that people just throw around with video games being the subject of discussions. Im much more clever than alot of you guys, not to boast or anything.[/QUOTE] well, then if you say that a game (something that has exactly the same dynamics and elements that films do nowadays) is not art, then you are also saying that a movie cannot be art. both a game and a motion picture hold many if not all the elements that make a creation a work of art, that is if you fully read my statement above. ill repeat, if video games do not do qualify as art, then neither do movies - both have too much in common for one to be art and the other to not be. both video game and movies have, storylines, plots, characters, roles, protagonists, antagonists, flow of events, an exposition, a rising action, a climactic turning point, a resolution, cinematography, choreography, camera dynamics, emotion, locations, sound, visual effects, animation, framerate, all the artistic elements I listed before... need I go on?? They say that a motion picture is the most collaborative form of art in all known existence because it has so many artistic elements. What about games?? they contain all the pre-existing elements of film, plus more. games have true user interactivity - something that films cannot and will never achieve. Listen, I love film and enjoy watching it, but like I said before, movies and games share many of the same elements and therefore are both art.Kojima has not been able to present any ''FACTS'' to the contrary, and neither have you. the ''FACT'' is that the word ''art'' does have a set definition that has never really changed what so ever; the forms of art are the things that keep on changing, as new styles and mediums are being introduced. so yeah, look at arts definition and yes look at its history (as you left yourself open to say) because if you do, then you will find that art takes many form, but yet they still hold to the same definition and also keep the same elements and principles. so, you say that games are artistic, but not art. that makes absolutely no shred of sense at all. arent paintings artistic... then they must be art right?? arentmovies artistic... then they must be art right?? arentmosaics artistic... then they must be art right?? what im getting at is that you obviously have no inkling as to what ''artistic'' means. it means anything that folllows the definition of art, and in turn share or use the artistic principles and/or elements. knowledge is power my friend, why dont you use it.the last thing i have to say is i hope you are not some Kojima fanboy or anything because thats what you sounded like back there. saying something like ''Kojima said video game is not art. Do not defy Kojima.'' is atrue classic fanboy response. and on the matter, Kojima does not have the right nor the authority to say that allvideo games are not art. he can say that the games he makes arent art, but he hasnt the slightest clue as to whether every developer feels that way about there own works. thats the equivalant of someone who looks at a painting and says ''that is nota finished painting''. it isnt up to the viewer to decide if one's work is a finished piece; that is soley up to the creator to decide. so for Kojima to look at all video games and label them like he labels his as being truth without giving facts to the opinionisnt up to him. he isnt god and he certainly doesnt make the world go 'round, let alone the whole video game industry. you obviously arent clever enough to see the facts, and therefor, you are just another of those guys. sorry, but your only proves my statement about you, for you have facts to back up your facts, as where i have introduced many. also, it does help that i am an artist, a gamer, and a game programmer so my argument comes from the right standpoint. you are just like the others; you are just a gamer, so my facts just bouce of your skull because you sway with the opinions of the majority, rather than thinking about the issue for yourself. my advice to you is to have some individuality, and dont come crawling to Kojima...
just a pre-emptive statment before other gamers who are only gamers come to comment: if you arent an artist, or do not have a firm grasp of what the definition of ''art'' and ''artistic'' are, then you should just spare yourself the embarassment of showing everyone that you dont know what your talking about. also, please. no fanboys...
[QUOTE=''Captain_Swosh69'']Thats your opinion. Art isnt something for someone to feel about so that object is art just coz somebody feels its art. You have to look back at ''art's'' history and defination. That being said, if you done your own research, Im not gonna do it for you, video game is not art and that is a FACT. That being said, we have lots of intangbles or wateva supporting what I just said. Kojima said video game is not art. Do not defy Kojima. Do not defy art in general. Worst still, dont taint the word art by categorizing it as being able to be a video game. You just not educated in art and logic. Nobody in the industry have ever said video game is art, in general. In contrast, there's a ''couple'' of people that said video game is not art. So case closed. By the way, a game can be artistic but never be art,.......yet.....who knows? One last thing, you people dont know the word innovation means. Same goes to hardcore and art, words that people just throw around with video games being the subject of discussions. Im much more clever than alot of you guys, not to boast or anything.[/QUOTE]You aren't explaining yourself. You're just making statements. I don't see that as very clever. You can't be clever without having an explanation to back your ideas up.
[QUOTE=''selbie''] You aren't explaining yourself. You're just making statements. I don't see that as very clever. You can't be clever without having an explanation to back your ideas up. [/QUOTE] thats exactly what i have been trying to stress this whole time. you gotta have the facts to back up an opinion, and i am certainly glad im not the only person here who sees that. thank you for making sense when Captain_Swosh69 couldnt...
[QUOTE=''kanedajjj5757''][QUOTE=''AtomicTangerine''] See, the thing about ''art'' is that the word has become so overused that it has lost most of its meaning. Going by your definition, when I make toast in the morning it is art. Maybe even clipping my toe nails could be considered art. While I'm at it, why don't I say fluffing my pillow just the way I like it is art.Also, video games are worked on by hundreds of people now. Many games have more in common with a cheap Happy Meal toy than the Mona Lisa.[/QUOTE] your toast is not a depiction of anything, nor are you trying to express anything. even if it holds some of the principles and/or elemts of art, if theres no intent by the creator to make it expressive or depictive then its not art. are you saying that making toast without the care of making art is like making a painting or a sulpture or a movie or a video game. people who creat art do it with the pupose and intent to create an expression or depiction, while you are simply just trying fill your stomach. you are obviously just a gamer and not artist or else you would have already known this. oh well...[/QUOTE]Just for the sake of argument, making toast (or any food) is part of the culinary arts. depending on what you do with said piece of toast it can indeed be art.
[QUOTE=''selbie''] [QUOTE=''Captain_Swosh69'']Thats your opinion. Art isnt something for someone to feel about so that object is art just coz somebody feels its art. You have to look back at ''art's'' history and defination. That being said, if you done your own research, Im not gonna do it for you, video game is not art and that is a FACT. That being said, we have lots of intangbles or wateva supporting what I just said. Kojima said video game is not art. Do not defy Kojima. Do not defy art in general. Worst still, dont taint the word art by categorizing it as being able to be a video game. You just not educated in art and logic. Nobody in the industry have ever said video game is art, in general. In contrast, there's a ''couple'' of people that said video game is not art. So case closed. By the way, a game can be artistic but never be art,.......yet.....who knows? One last thing, you people dont know the word innovation means. Same goes to hardcore and art, words that people just throw around with video games being the subject of discussions. Im much more clever than alot of you guys, not to boast or anything.[/QUOTE]You aren't explaining yourself. You're just making statements. I don't see that as very clever. You can't be clever without having an explanation to back your ideas up. [/QUOTE]LOL. I think he wrote that post with the intent to not make sense.
[QUOTE=''brianpoetzel''][QUOTE=''selbie''] [QUOTE=''Captain_Swosh69'']Thats your opinion. Art isnt something for someone to feel about so that object is art just coz somebody feels its art. You have to look back at ''art's'' history and defination. That being said, if you done your own research, Im not gonna do it for you, video game is not art and that is a FACT. That being said, we have lots of intangbles or wateva supporting what I just said. Kojima said video game is not art. Do not defy Kojima. Do not defy art in general. Worst still, dont taint the word art by categorizing it as being able to be a video game. You just not educated in art and logic. Nobody in the industry have ever said video game is art, in general. In contrast, there's a ''couple'' of people that said video game is not art. So case closed. By the way, a game can be artistic but never be art,.......yet.....who knows? One last thing, you people dont know the word innovation means. Same goes to hardcore and art, words that people just throw around with video games being the subject of discussions. Im much more clever than alot of you guys, not to boast or anything.[/QUOTE]You aren't explaining yourself. You're just making statements. I don't see that as very clever. You can't be clever without having an explanation to back your ideas up. [/QUOTE]LOL. I think he wrote that post with the intent to not make sense.[/QUOTE] heh he must have huh? hey i love your sig picture...
[QUOTE=''brianpoetzel''][QUOTE=''kanedajjj5757''][QUOTE=''AtomicTangerine''] See, the thing about ''art'' is that the word has become so overused that it has lost most of its meaning. Going by your definition, when I make toast in the morning it is art. Maybe even clipping my toe nails could be considered art. While I'm at it, why don't I say fluffing my pillow just the way I like it is art.Also, video games are worked on by hundreds of people now. Many games have more in common with a cheap Happy Meal toy than the Mona Lisa.[/QUOTE] your toast is not a depiction of anything, nor are you trying to express anything. even if it holds some of the principles and/or elemts of art, if theres no intent by the creator to make it expressive or depictive then its not art. are you saying that making toast without the care of making art is like making a painting or a sulpture or a movie or a video game. people who creat art do it with the pupose and intent to create an expression or depiction, while you are simply just trying fill your stomach. you are obviously just a gamer and not artist or else you would have already known this. oh well...[/QUOTE]Just for the sake of argument, making toast (or any food) is part of the culinary arts. depending on what you do with said piece of toast it can indeed be art.[/QUOTE] a culinary piece of art still must follow the definition of art though. just making toast isnt art - one must use it to make a depiction of something or an expression of something. if i were to make some toast and put the butter on a spot next to it and call it ''i dont butter my toast'' then it is art. i am expressing that i dont put butter on toast. just making it doesnt costitiute art if it all has no meaning depiction... okay lets stop talking bout food its making me hungry :lol:...
you're just one guy on a forum. this is the internet.I not gonna back up my claims just becoz its the internet, becoz if I dont, its not true, right?? Right?? Or am I right??? Now TC, if games are not art, so are not movies. Nice. Nicccceeee. Now to back up your claims, you throw around stuff like cinematography or what not. Niiceeeee. But screw that coz the fact of the matter is ''some'' films are considered art, generally,...........and video games.....NOOOTT. Films, films, films. Why dont you get specific instead of twisting your own words???? Terminator 3 is not art. Terminator 3: The game is not art. Spiderman 1, 2, 3 are not arts and Spiderman 1, 2, 3: the game are not arts. They're blockbusters. Go get some real sense of what real art is. p.s. If you gonna reply to this, im not gonna retort coz I just blow away your argument with my film-games examples so im just gonna go to OT. art is expression blah blah blah. Expression : Ahnold: I'll be back = art. Expression: Ahnold from game: I'll be back = art.
[QUOTE=''kanedajjj5757''][QUOTE=''brianpoetzel''][QUOTE=''kanedajjj5757''][QUOTE=''AtomicTangerine''] See, the thing about ''art'' is that the word has become so overused that it has lost most of its meaning. Going by your definition, when I make toast in the morning it is art. Maybe even clipping my toe nails could be considered art. While I'm at it, why don't I say fluffing my pillow just the way I like it is art.Also, video games are worked on by hundreds of people now. Many games have more in common with a cheap Happy Meal toy than the Mona Lisa.[/QUOTE] your toast is not a depiction of anything, nor are you trying to express anything. even if it holds some of the principles and/or elemts of art, if theres no intent by the creator to make it expressive or depictive then its not art. are you saying that making toast without the care of making art is like making a painting or a sulpture or a movie or a video game. people who creat art do it with the pupose and intent to create an expression or depiction, while you are simply just trying fill your stomach. you are obviously just a gamer and not artist or else you would have already known this. oh well...[/QUOTE]Just for the sake of argument, making toast (or any food) is part of the culinary arts. depending on what you do with said piece of toast it can indeed be art.[/QUOTE] a culinary piece of art still must follow the definition of art though. just making toast isnt art - one must use it to make a depiction of something or an expression of something. if i were to make some toast and put the butter on a spot next to it and call it ''i dont butter my toast'' then it is art. i am expressing that i dont put butter on toast. just making it doesnt costitiute art if it all has no meaning depiction... okay lets stop talking bout food its making me hungry :lol:...[/QUOTE]LOL. Yeah. I had to go make myself breakfast after that. But food is kind of unique in the fact that it's meant to be consumed. It doesn't really make an expression or message. It's just meant to be beautiful, more like a sculpture. Food can be art but not all food is. I feel the same way about games. Most games are not art but some are. And I believe that games are just as capable of being art as movies, books, paintings and photography. It just depends what we do with it.
[QUOTE=''Captain_Swosh69'']Thats your opinion. Art isnt something for someone to feel about so that object is art just coz somebody feels its art. You have to look back at ''art's'' history and defination. That being said, if you done your own research, Im not gonna do it for you, video game is not art and that is a FACT. That being said, we have lots of intangbles or wateva supporting what I just said. Kojima said video game is not art. Do not defy Kojima. Do not defy art in general. Worst still, dont taint the word art by categorizing it as being able to be a video game. You just not educated in art and logic. Nobody in the industry have ever said video game is art, in general. In contrast, there's a ''couple'' of people that said video game is not art. So case closed. By the way, a game can be artistic but never be art,.......yet.....who knows? One last thing, you people dont know the word innovation means. Same goes to hardcore and art, words that people just throw around with video games being the subject of discussions. Im much more clever than alot of you guys, not to boast or anything.[/QUOTE]That's the best imitation of Salazar from Resident Evil 4 I've ever seen. Bravo. I like to think you're wearing the hat too. You got it backwards that you're clever and games aren't art. But that's opinion, not fact. Ebert tried to be a screenwriter, but someone who could only write things like Beyond the Valley of the Ultra-Vixens isn't that persuasive about what is and isn't art.
[QUOTE=''Captain_Swosh69''] you're just one guy on a forum. this is the internet.I not gonna back up my claims just becoz its the internet, becoz if I dont, its not true, right?? Right?? Or am I right??? Now TC, if games are not art, so are not movies. Nice. Nicccceeee. Now to back up your claims, you throw around stuff like cinematography or what not. Niiceeeee. But screw that coz the fact of the matter is ''some'' films are considered art, generally,...........and video games.....NOOOTT. Films, films, films. Why dont you get specific instead of twisting your own words???? Terminator 3 is not art. Terminator 3: The game is not art. Spiderman 1, 2, 3 are not arts and Spiderman 1, 2, 3: the game are not arts. They're blockbusters. Go get some real sense of what real art is. p.s. If you gonna reply to this, im not gonna retort coz I just blow away your argument with my film-games examples so im just gonna go to OT. art is expression blah blah blah. Expression : Ahnold: I'll be back = art. Expression: Ahnold from game: I'll be back = art.[/QUOTE] sorry to destroy your lousy arguments that lacks true subtsance, but the story that terminator crafts is art in itself, and so is the follow up story in the game. remember storytelling is a form of art, and both terminator 3 and its video game counterpart have that form of art, along with most, if not all the art principles and elements. you are just twisting the true definition of art. you think that all works of art have to be masterpieces or theyre not art, and thats not the case. in your pitiful retort you say these ''game-film'' examples prove that movies and games arent art, because they also happen to be bad movies and games. i agree, they are not the greatest movies and or games, but whether theyre great or not doesnt have any bearing on whether they are art or not. so, why dont you ''go get some real sense of what real art is''.face it, you have no argument, and the more you make points without facts, the more you prove my point, and the more you prove that you dont know what you are talking about and that you are an absolute ignorant fool. in the real world you need facts to back up your claims, and just because we are posting on aforum over the internetrather than talking face to face doesnt change the equation whatsoever. you are simply just flying off the handle and making an argument based on nothing of factual substance. and you are still ignorant to what art is. why dont you do some actual research??you can come up with more game-movie examples, but im just going to prove that they are just simply art-art examples. get some facts, and then we'll talk...
How are video games NOT art????If a video game make you cry its art. And I cried when I saw the Halo 3 trailer at e3.... Yep, H3 looks that awful....
[QUOTE=''bucknut85''] How are video games NOT art????If a video game make you cry its art. And I cried when I saw the Halo 3 trailer at e3.... Yep, H3 looks that awful....[/QUOTE] but its still art, even though its awful. at lest you make sense, unlike that other dude...
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